Conservative Cake & Liberal Icing

New Directions...?

2011-05-06T08:27:00.000-07:00

I related a story when I started this blog 4 years ago about hearing a rumor when I was about 16 that the SL temple being closed for 5 years to prepare it for the second coming. When I asked my very sweet grandma who worked at the temple about it she laughed at both the thought and my gullibility. It burned me to my core! I vowed to never accept anything slightly sensationalized related to the church without sound documentation. Thus started my journey down a road that lead me away from traditional TBM-ism. I had various ups and downs on that path that lead me to feel strongly that the church needs to do a better job of sharing its history with less white washing that it currently does, something that has increased significantly over the past 60 years or so.

Fast forward to this week where the Deseret News had an article stating, "Active Latter-day Saints want their church to provide a 'frank and honest' presentation of church history, unvarnished by attempts to sugar-coat the past in order to make it more palatable." This survey was not done by DN, but rather "done by the family and church history department of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Furthermore, it wasn't given to people like me who frequent the bloggernacle, it "targeted members who use the church's resources to do family history." That is pretty cool.

This is pretty sad:

...the survey also showed that respondents [g]et much of their information about the church's past from historical fiction. When asked to respond to the statement, "I learned much of what I know about church history from 'The Work and the Glory,"' (a fictional series of books and films about an early Latter-day Saint family and their trials) Olpin said almost half of the respondents answered "yes."

Rough Stone Rolling

2011-01-23T12:46:00.000-08:00

I have a TBM friend and X-Mormon friend who I often converse with on Facebook. They have started a group on FB to discuss RSR as they read through it on a chapter a week basis. They invited me to participate and we opened the group up to others to increase discussion. If you would like me to send you an invite let me know.

Appearance Changes

2011-01-12T10:29:00.000-08:00

I'm not one for promoting changes in policy because "the times have changed," unless that change it to update somethings such as a non-modesty related cultural norm. There has been an update to recommendations for sister missionary apparel. Here's to hoping BYU will change its facial hair policy to exclude the dirty 70's porn star mustaches and include cleanly trimmed beards. If so, I'm sure the LDS cultural ramifications will follow...

Here's to this...

Over any of this...

Sweet Video

2010-11-22T13:33:00.000-08:00

In my last post I mentioned that I don't see the Church as perfect. Despite the amazing good things that the Church does and helps people achieve, there are some problems there. Not admitting such is intellectual dishonesty in my opinion. Here is a series of videos that explains well the origin to many of these problems with the Church, its leadership and general members. Furthermore, it gives this information with an appropriate perspective and in an more articulate manner than I could. The first three videos deal with this topic, the last three deal more with evidences. Definitely watch the first three!

The other side

2010-11-19T14:47:00.000-08:00

I frequently am bothered when people that are very critical of the church, both from within and without. On the other hand, I'm not one to tout the church as perfectly run or error free. I do feel that the critics focus too much on the negative without taking advantage of the positives. There are a ton and they aren't publicized enough. Much of the greatness I have in my life is due to the influence of the church. I wish that would get more credit, it is definitely due.

Here is a good article from an outside source doing just that...
http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/article/major-new-study-of-religion-has-much-to-say-about-mormons

For all you haters...

2010-11-14T13:09:00.000-08:00

A pretty interesting Church policy change is that at least part of the Church Handbook of Instructions is now posted online. Great news for all the sophisticated people like myself...see the following image...

Interesting

2010-10-12T13:51:00.000-07:00

I had a ton of things to say about all that went on this past week with Elder Packer's talk, but I lost the desire to spend the time to type it all out. Basically, as usual, I tend not to jump on either extreme's band wagon. The worst thing in the entire situation is when people don't treat those they disagree with civily. Unfortunately that is happening way too often and I think overshadows the issues at hand.

Anyway, while I was looking up some info on a couple GA's, I noticed their bio's have how many children they have had. Although it is totally up to the individual and you can't judge another and how many children they do or don't have, I couldn't resist noticing the following trend...

Average number of children to the seven most senior GA's (excluding President Monson to keep the numbers at seven and seven) is 6.4 while the average for the seven least senior GA's is 3.7. One of the things I learned in my sociology minor that stuck out the most to me was how we as LDS people tend to follow the nation trends very similar, just at different levels for most things. For example, when the average family went from four to two, we went from eight to four (or some other similar numbers). We drop when the country drops, but just at different numbers. Here are the stats...

Monson 3

Q12

Packer 10

Perry 3

Nelson 10

Oaks 6

Ballard 7

Scott 7

Hales 2

Holland 3

Bednar 3

Cook 3

Christofferson 5

Anderson 4

Everyone but Monson

Packer 10

Perry 3

Nelson 10

Oaks 6

Ballard 7

Scott 7

Hales 2

Holland 3

Eyring 6

Uchtdorf 2

Bednar 3

Cook 3

Christofferson 5

Anderson 4

Averages

First 7 = 6.4

Last 7 = 3.7

Be Aware

2010-09-26T16:37:00.000-07:00

This post is off the cuff so pardon me for not delivering it in a very articulate manner....Not many members know that Joseph did the majority of his translating of the BOM via a seer stone in a hat. Sometimes learning about church history facts such as this can be bothersome to one's testimony, and understandably so. If your understanding of the translation process is as depicted in the majority of Church art, you are fairly incorrect.

As a seminary teacher and one who is very aware of church history warts (or potential warts) I try to teach in such a way that the students become aware of these things in a normal, comfortable manner. Last week I taught the translation process and no one batted an eye when I mentioned the above translation fact. Now, if someone tries to blindside them in the future this fact in a faith discouraging manner, they will already know and be prepared. While working on one of next week's lessons, I came across the following verse that never stood out to me like it did today and relates well to this issue.

D&C 38:30 I tell you these things because of your prayers; wherefore, treasure up wisdom in your bosoms, lest the wickedness of men reveal these things unto you by their wickedness, in a manner which shall speak in your ears with a voice louder than that which shall shake the earth; but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.

I feel bad for those whose church history learning was out of sync and created some cognitive dissonance for them when the more accurate information was learned. I know I've been there a time or two.

I am a...Muslim?

2010-09-01T12:19:00.001-07:00

Check out this cool video. Does the format look familiar...?

9/11 Happened to Us All @ Yahoo! Video

Proxy Baptisms

2010-08-10T21:41:00.000-07:00

I'm as surprised as you are about the number of posts on my blog recently. It is turning more into a place where I can share interesting things I come across rather than a place to lay out my thoughts. Here is a very interesting blog post that was brought up on another blog I regularly follow. If you ever need a good place to send your Jewish friends that ask about why we do proxy baptisms then I have the place for you....

http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/mormon_proxy_immersions_for_the_dead_39100728/

Check out his other posts too if interested.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons

Egyptian Works

2010-08-08T21:53:00.000-07:00

If you deal much with LDS apologetics on either side of the fence then you know that the Book of Abraham and the Kirkland Egyptian Papers are very difficult to follow and argued by many as the weakest link in the Joseph Smith as a prophet chain. If you have put much time into this at all then enjoy this presentation given at a recent FAIR conference. Two great videos that potentially restart the entire game on the BofA.

http://vimeo.com/user439270/videos

Awesomeness

2010-07-28T16:16:00.000-07:00

There have been many things I was tempted to post about over the past few months, but with a fourth baby, work getting terribly busy and my scout calling, I haven't had anything motivate me enough to post despite the aforementioned difficulties. I even started a couple, but have them saved as incomplete edits. Anyway, I really like the church's new marketing/media campaign and I couldn't resist posting this link that I have below. I think the campaign will sync well with the general population, and I really like the following example of it. If you haven't created one for yourself (and you are Saint of record), I highly recommend logging in and doing it.

http://mormon.org/josh

...and for more of the same http://mormon.org/people/

JS Quote I Liked

2010-03-28T23:54:00.000-07:00

Because I frequently visit a couple blogs about the Church and its doctrine I come across a few people who try to "steady the ark." While I am not naive enough to believe in the infallibility of prophets, I do think some members go too far in their criticisms. I understand that the Church is lead by men and therefore mistakes are unavoidable. Furthermore, sometimes those mistakes are easy to see. With that, enjoy the following from Brother Joseph...

“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” - History of the Church, 3:385; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on July 2, 1839, in Montrose, Iowa; reported by Wilford Woodruff and Willard Richards.

2010-03-23T08:52:00.001-07:00

Things have been very busy with a new baby, scout camp, taxes, etc., but I couldn't let this moment pass without some statement concerning the nature of this historic moment! [Click the link below the video or skip to the 45 seconds point in the video.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU#t=0m45s

Sunday night to today doesn't seem like 5 days to me...thanks for another lie Mr. Obama.

Random Thoughts Lately

2010-02-12T15:44:00.001-08:00

In faith precedes the miracles it is funny to read where the prophet Spencer W Kimball describes the amazing technological advances that have happened (up to that point in the late 70's) by detailing how we can sit in our living room and watch on our tv a fight in Madison Square Garden
Are wealthy people more likely to be conservative because conservative policies are more likely to keep money with the individual and therefore they migrate to that party, or are conservative values more likely to make you wealthy?
The constitution is for controlling human nature and keeping it in check so those who have authority can't use it to take advantage of people
Beckham is the most loving and giving person I think I've ever met, he always is amazing us w/ his natural giving and caring nature. It makes me fear we will lose him b/c he is too pure for this world
Members of the church don't have a 100% knowledge that it is true and therefore a 0% doubt. Similarly, those who have left the church don't have a 100% disbelief and a 0% faith. We all have a varied percentage, when it falls below 50% we tend to leave and when its above 50% we tend to stick around.
Probably our largest political problem right now is that we argue too often and too strongly over our disagreements, and not so much because we disagree or what we disagree on.
it irritates me when people who subscribe to the Mormon faith and its requirements for personal revelation also infer superior personal revelation despite not adhering to those canonized prerequisites

Love this

2010-02-05T15:28:00.000-08:00

Comment on my brother's blog where they showed how much money they saved in their shopping..

Love your family
...but why do you guys even care what is a good deal or even free lately?
I mean come on. The head of your household is a DENTIST. Bringin' in the big bucks ya know?
Who cares what's free when you'll never have to worry about $?
Kuddos though. :)

As a dentist I get judged the same way all the time. I like what his physician friend said in a later comment. In my current ward I know people with other jobs that make more than I ever have as a dentist yet they don't get judged similarly b/c they don't have the title. I can't decide if it is more funny or more bothersome because it is definitely both.

Who said the mainstream media is liberal?

2010-01-14T22:28:00.000-08:00

I thought this was telling http://www.getreligion.org/?p=24471

With all the hoopla surrounding Glenn Beck, I decided to start watching him the past few weeks. I hadn't seen him since his days on CNN. I have to admit, he's pretty scary. I'll give his detractors a little credit to calling him a demagogue, but pretty much most of what he says is fact so I can't give them any credit for calling him the "Misinformer of the Year." Watching him creates a big fear in me though. One, if what he implies about various Washington people is correct, then I fear for his life. Two, similarly, if what he says is correct and they don't take option one, I fear they will try to discredit him via his Mormonism...hopefully, neither occurs.

Best of 2009

2010-01-13T22:07:00.000-08:00

Last year I didn't find as many songs as usual. My list for the year only includes 89 songs, that is a bit anemic for me. Anyway, here is the list of songs I got this year. I'm sure there are a few that came out in previous years, but I didn't get them until this year. If you don't know every single one of them, where have you been all year....? =)

(click links to see videos)
Funnest to sing together with kids = Handlebars - Flobots
Best lyrics = The Good Left Undone - Rise Against
Favorite Techno = Feel Your Love - Kim Sozzi
Favorite song not on the list because I couldn't find it = Crush Me

Song	Artist
1, 2, 3, 4	Plain White T's
3 Rounds And A Sound	Blind Pilot
Already Gone	Kelly Clarkson
Angel On My Shoulder	Kaskade
Another Day (James Doman Remix Extended)	Sophia May
Audience Of One	Rise Against
Battlefield	Jordin Sparks
Beat It	Fall Out Boy Ft. John Mayer
Boom Boom Pow (Clean)	Black Eyed Peas
Call My Name (Thomas Gold Remix)	Morgan Page
Chemistry (Radio Version)	Velvet
Crimewave (Crystal Castles Vs. Health Remix)	Crystal Castles
Day 'N' Nite	Kid Cudi
Day 'N' Nite (Crookers Remix)	Kid Cudi
Dead And Gone (Clean)	T.I. Ft. Justin Timberlake
Do You Remember	Jack Johnson
Don't Trust Me (P.O. Clean Edit)	3oh!3
Echo	Gorilla Zoe
Electric Feel	MGMT
Evacuate The Dance Floor	Cascada feat. Carlprit
Feel Your Love (Original Mix)	Kim Sozzi
Feel Your Love (Original Mix)	Kim Sozzi
Fireflies	Owl City
Forever (Radio Edit)	Milk Inc
Friends and Love	Nicholas Hooper
Genesis	Justice
Go On, Say It	Blind Pilot
Good Morning Planetarium	Falling Up
Handlebars	Flobots
Heartless	Kanye West
Heartless (Cover)	The Fray
Hot (Club Mix)	Inna
Hot (Radio_Edit)	Inna
I Buried A Bone	Blind Pilot
I Did It For Love	BoA
I Got It	Gorilla Zoe Ft. Big Block
I Gotta Feeling	The Black Eyed Peas
I Hope They Get To Me In Time	Darius Rucker
If Today Was Your Last Day	Nickelback
If You Knew	Chris Lake Ft. Nastala
I'm Not Over	Carolina Liar
Imagination (Kaskade Club Remix)	Jes
Infinity 2008	Guru Josh Project
Infinity 2008 (Klaas Remix)	Guru Josh Project
Keep Hope Alive	Crystal Method
Kids	MGMT
Kiss Me Back	Kim Sozzi
Let The Feelings Go ( Radio Edit DRM )	Anna Grace
Lollipop (Instrumental)	Lil Wayne
Love Drunk	Boys Like Girls
Love Story	Taylor Swift
Major Tom	Shiny Toy Guns
Modern Times (Chriss Ortega Mix)	Steve Forest Ft. Marcus Pearson
My Flow So Tight	Jump Smokers
Nothing Better	The Postal Service
On The Wing	Owl City
One Day	Matisyahu
One Red Thread	Blind Pilot
Open Ur Mind	Jason Nevins
Oviedo	Blind Pilot
Paint Or Pollen	Blind Pilot
Paper Planes	M.I.A.
Papparazzi	Lady GaGa
Party In The USA	Miley Cirus
Poor Boy	Blind Pilot
Rehab	Rihanna
Right Now (Na Na Na)	Akon
Shake It	Metro Station
She Wolf	Shakira
She Wolf	Shakira
Shooting Star	David Rush
Smooth Criminal	Buzz Cuts
Smooth Criminal (Acoustic)	Michael Jackson
Smooth Criminal (Dance Remix)	Michael Jackson
Step One Two	Kaskade
Strawberry Avalanche	Owl City
Sugar	Flo Rida Ft. Wynter
Take Me On The Floor	The Veronicas
The Bitter End	Blind Pilot
The Fear	Lily Allen
The Motions	Matthew West
The Story I Heard	Blind Pilot
Things I Cannot Recall	Blind Pilot
Two Towns From Me	Blind Pilot
Vanished	Crystal Castles
White Horse (Whelan & DiScala Club Mix)	Sarah Mcleod
Who We Are	Ryan Calhoun
Wildcat	Ratatat

Somethings not right here...

2010-01-06T21:58:00.000-08:00

I saw this originally mentioned on a BCC post, but didn't think it was going to get much traction. I'm starting to see it posted in a lot of other places. What is wrong with this?

Well, besides the obvious such as not allowing LDS women into his meetings, or even restricting the attendance at all. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but something definitely bugs...

Tired of Sunday School?

2010-01-06T17:21:00.000-08:00

Be honest, sometimes Sunday School can be boring. I blame this more on the audience than the teacher frequently. I know that Marisa and I feel like we have to "pull ourselves back" from making too many comments. Yet, at he same time we feel obliged to comment more to feel the void. Then, when comments are given, they are too bland. From what Marisa says, this happens especially in Relief Society. Too often the comments are about others and not often enough about ourselves. Applying the scriptures, to ourselves, HONESTLY and openly is a sure fire way to bring in the spirit. For another take on the whole correlation processes, its intents, positives and potential negatives, read this interesting article from the blog By Common Consent.

BTW, for those of you that are entirely against the correlation department, try to come up with a program that can be dispursed across the entire world, in many languages, for all doctrinal experience levels, for all teaching experience levels, applicable to ages 12-120, prepare and organize it in a reasonable amount of time by a reasonable amount of people, and in a way that will keep both local influences and speculative ideas from being taught as doctrinal.

First post of the decade

2010-01-02T23:27:00.001-08:00

Where are we headed...? Hopefully, not down the road to socialism.

Here is a sweet clip showing the famous socialist proving grounds of Detroit. All though I believe that some socialists truly have the good of mankind as their end result, you can't deny two things in my opinion: 1-power can't go very far with humans before becoming corrupt, 2-due to human nature, socialist policies kill motivation and drive.

All news is good news?

2009-12-28T22:10:00.000-08:00

Mormons make the news again in the PNW. Delilah is a local evening radio host that is syndicated in other parts of the country so her influence is fairly significant. I'm not sure what I think about this. She definitely seems to only have a real problem with Covey's Mormonism rather than his book's tenants. I read a few of the comments...very interesting.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/dec/25/changes-in-crosspoints-curriculum-draw-ire-from/?partner=popular

Santa Clause

2009-12-24T23:52:00.001-08:00

Yep, Jolly Old Saint Nick. In our family we don't push him on our kids. At the same time, we don't push our kids away from him either. We don't feel comfortable feeding our kids a bold faced lie when they directly ask, "Is Santa real?" right after citing some reasons why they don't think he can be. Trey basically figured it out at age 5. Bex has no idea and will probably keep believing until he is 18. Trey is very analytical and not super trusting. Bex is uber-trusting and not overly analytical. A couple of years ago Trey literally backed Marisa into a corner after seeing smoke come out of the neighbor's small chimney. He told her that he doesn't believe Santa can fit through that little burning hole, has tons of small people that work for him, and he absolutely can not make it around to the millions of houses in one night. Would you LIE to your child and tell him that his astute thinking is incorrect and there is magic that allows him to bend the space-time continuum? We couldn't.

I know some people think we rob our children (well, so far just one) of the joy of Christmas by doing this and thus the motivation for this post. It absolutely doesn't take anything away from Christmas. Does the joy for children come from the presents on Christmas morning, or from who gave them? In our experience, Christmas morning has not lost a single lumen of its luster for our oldest child. He is just as excited as he was before, and is just as excited as his younger brothers. In fact, one could argue that Trey has more appreciation knowing that the toys are from us an not some fat old man with red cheeks that gives them away for free. And who knows, maybe he'll be a little less likely to be a socialist and expect some greater force out there to give him things for free...

Bless the food...

2009-12-21T22:17:00.000-08:00

I like to post things that I have been thinking about and things that will make others think. The other night one of our son's forgot to "bless the food" when he said prayer over the food at dinner time. I told him not to worry about it because he said "We thank thee for the food." My explanation to him was that I feel it is more important to give thanks for the food than it is to bless it. My reasoning is as follows...

For thousands of years, the primary preoccupation for an individual was "how am I going to eat my next meal?" or "how am I going to survive the winter?" Whenever people ate, they were very grateful to have that food in front of them. When a humble, God-fearing person was getting ready to eat, they felt and expressed gratitude for being able to do so.

Now days, most of us don't really worry about IF we are going to eat. If we worry at all, it is about the caloric intake, what would be the quickest to cook or what would taste the best. This luxury has made us take for granted the number two acute requirement for prolonging life (next to oxygen of course)...FOOD!

Is it really that important to "bless the food?" I submit that it is not. Yet, it is vitally important to give thanks for the food. I'm not saying that we shouldn't bless it, although I do wonder if it is just a modern (last one to two hundred years) twist on "saying grace over the food." Hopefully someone with more knowledge in this area can point me in the right direction. I do think it is silly to go back and say another prayer, just to bless the food though. if you did say things for it. At the same time, I don't think it is silly to go back and say thanks for the food if that essential statement is forgotten.

Anecdotally, I think it is also good to have a habit of meal time prayer to help us turn our thoughts to God and have him ever more present in our lives than He would be if we just said prayer in the evening before going to bed.

Fourfold purposes of the Church?

2009-12-10T12:43:00.000-08:00

I don't know if this is news for those of you that are Utards or not, but this is the first I've heard of this out here in the PNW.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13965607

The LDS Church is adding "to care for the poor and needy" to its longstanding "threefold mission," which is to preach the LDS gospel, purify members' lives and provide saving ordinances such as baptism to those who have died.

Very nice. That fits in well and explains why there seemed to be an increased amount of talks on that subject the last conference or two.

Interesting Idea

2009-12-04T17:03:00.000-08:00

If you read much of this blog in the beginning you know that although I fully sustain and believe in the prophet, I do not believe in the infallibility of our prophets. That is why I feel comfortable in thinking that BY started the priesthood ban incorrectly, JMHO. Here is a very interesting article at BCC that sounds like a plausible reason for my own only concern with the issue...if it was an error on BY's part, why didn't it get corrected earlier when David O McKay and others wanted to correct it.

Enjoy! David O. McKay and the Priesthood Ban

In the middle

2009-11-10T22:39:00.000-08:00

My effort to find the happy medium tends to isolate me. Life seems to usually generate two main schools of thought in any given subject. I see correct principles in both sides of the story and therefore, end up in the middle. That makes side A and side B both dislike me because I am not in whole agreement with them. Case in point, the Church and homosexuality issue. There are those that think the Church should condone the act, and those that think the Church shouldn't (and they think it doesn't) condone anything relating to the practice.

Recently, WA state had a measure on their ballot, called the "Everything but Marriage Act." Although I didn't get my mail in card in and therefore didn't vote, I probably would have supported this measure. There are people I know that think I am completely wrong in doing so. I can be arrogant sometimes in thinking that I figure the Church out pretty well and am in sync with it more than most others. Whether it be good or bad, my confidence got another boost recently...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343558/Gays-get-Mormon-support-in-SLC.html

For those that think the Church doesn't approve gay rights...
"In a rare public appearance before Salt Lake City lawmakers Tuesday night, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints supported two proposed ordinances protecting gay and lesbian residents from housing and employment discrimination."

For clarification on where the Church stands...
"The church supports this ordinance because it is fair and reasonable and does not do violence to the institution of marriage,"

Because I believe that the greatest attribute anyone can have is kindness, the following was the best quote of the night...
"I represent a church that believes in human dignity, in treating others with respect even when we disagree — in fact, especially when we disagree."

Is Atheism becoming the state religion

2009-10-25T17:08:00.000-07:00

My wife proably hears this so much from me that it makes her throw up a little bit in the back of her throat every time I say it. Yet, I still say it probably once a week...."Where's the happy medium?" The pendulum on any spectrum seems to sway back and forth between too much and too little. My life experience has shown me that I am usually in agreement with things when they are near that happy medium spot. Listening to something recently where religion belongs in the public sphere I had the following thoughts...

Some argue that because of the separation of church and state, that there should not be any religious tie-ins to anything in the government.

It doesn't take a genius to understand the history and conditions of the constitutional writing era to know that the founding fathers at least intended for there not to be an official state religion. Furthermore, it is obvious that the foundation was built on Judeo-chrisitian principles. The majority of Americans are still Judeo-christian in their personal belief system. With all of the above being true, I submit that by removing all references to religion from the governmental sphere, we would indeed be declaring a state religion...the religion of no religion, also known as atheism. If that were the case, the pendulum would have swung too far in that direction.

SSM Debate now in WA

2009-10-20T15:01:00.001-07:00

The same sex marriage (SSM) debate is now coming to Washington state. It is both a difficult and touchy subject. In an effort to make sure I am well informed on the issue and the Church's position, I collected some information and links on the subject. Here are some selections that stood out to me from a few of the church publications on SSM and same sex attraction (SSA):

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage

The Church’s teachings and position on this moral issue are unequivocal. Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and the formation of families is central to the Creator’s plan for His children. Children are entitled to be born within this bond of marriage.

We ask that you do all you can to … assure that marriage … is legally defined as being between a man and a woman. Our best efforts are required to preserve the sacred institution of marriage.

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-divine-institution-of-marriage

The Church does not object to rights (already established in California) regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the family or the constitutional rights of churches and their adherents to administer and practice their religion free from government interference.

The Church has a single, undeviating standard of sexual morality: intimate relations are proper only between a husband and a wife united in the bonds of matrimony.

A husband and a wife do not receive these benefits to elevate them above any other two people who may share a residence or social tie, but rather in order to preserve, protect, and defend the all-important institutions of marriage and family.

Co-habitation under any guise or title is not a sufficient reason for defining new forms of marriage.

High rates of divorce and out-of-wedlock births have resulted in an exceptionally large number of single parents in American society. Many of these single parents have raised exemplary children; nevertheless, extensive studies have shown that in general a husband and wife united in a loving, committed marriage provide the optimal environment for children to be protected, nurtured, and raised. [1]

David Popenoe has said:

The burden of social science evidence supports the idea that gender differentiated parenting is important for human development and that the contribution of fathers to childrearing is unique and irreplaceable. ^[2]

Popenoe explained that:

. . . The complementarity of male and female parenting styles is striking and of enormous importance to a child’s overall development. It is sometimes said that fathers express more concern for the child’s longer-term development, while mothers focus on the child’s immediate well-being (which, of course, in its own way has everything to do with a child’s long-term well-being). What is clear is that children have dual needs that must be met: one for independence and the other for relatedness, one for challenge and the other for support. [3]

In recent years in the United States and other countries, a movement has emerged to promote same-sex marriage as an inherent or constitutional right. This is not a small step, but a radical change: instead of society tolerating or accepting private, consensual sexual behavior between adults, advocates of same-sex marriage seek its official endorsement and recognition

In sum, there is very strong agreement across America on what marriage is.

As Elder Dallin H. Oaks has explained,

Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another’s differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination. ^[4]

Legalizing same-sex marriage will affect a wide spectrum of government activities and policies. Once a state government declares that same-sex unions are a civil right, those governments almost certainly will enforce a wide variety of other policies intended to ensure that there is no discrimination against same-sex couples. This may well place “church and state on a collision course.” ^[5]

Aside from the very serious consequence of undermining and diluting the sacred nature of marriage between a man and a woman, there are many practical implications in the sphere of public policy that will be of deep concern to parents and society as a whole. These are critical to understanding the seriousness of the overall issue of same-sex marriage.

When a man and a woman marry with the intention of forming a new family, their success in that endeavor depends on their willingness to renounce the single-minded pursuit of self-fulfillment and to sacrifice their time and means to the nurturing and rearing of their children. Marriage is fundamentally an unselfish act: legally protected because only a male and female together can create new life, and because the rearing of children requires a life-long commitment, which marriage is intended to provide. Societal recognition of same-sex marriage cannot be justified simply on the grounds that it provides self-fulfillment to its partners, for it is not the purpose of government to provide legal protection to every possible way in which individuals may pursue fulfillment. By definition, all same-sex unions are infertile, and two individuals of the same gender, whatever their affections, can never form a marriage devoted to raising their own mutual offspring.

Strong, stable families, headed by a father and mother, are the anchor of civilized society.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has chosen to become involved, along with many other churches, organizations, and individuals, in defending the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman because it is a compelling moral issue of profound importance to our religion and to the future of our society.

[1] David Blankenhorn, Fatherless America: Confronting Our Most Urgent Social Problem (New York: Basic Books, 1995); Barbara Schneider, Allison Atteberry, and Ann Owens, Family Matters: Family Structure and Child Outcomes (Birmingham AL: Alabama Policy Institute: June 2005); David Popenoe, Life Without Father (New York: Martin Kessler Books, 1996); David Popenoe and Barbara Defoe Whitehead, The State of Our Unions 2007: The Social Health of Marriage in America (Piscataway, NJ (Rutgers University): The National Marriage Project, July 2007 ) pp. 21-25; and Maggie Gallagher and Joshua K. Baker, “Do Moms and Dads Matter? Evidence from the Social Sciences on Family Structure and the Best Interests of the Child,” Margins Law Journal 4:161 (2004).

[2] David Popenoe, Life Without Father (New York: The Free Press, 1996) p. 146.

[3] Ibid., p. 145. See also Spencer W. Kimball, “The Role of Righteous Women,” Ensign, November 1979, pp. 102-104.

[4] Elder Dallin H. Oaks, “Weightier Matters,” BYU Devotional speech, 9 February 1999.

[5] Maggie Gallagher, “Banned in Boston: The Coming Conflict Between Same-Sex Marriage and Religious Liberty,” The Weekly Standard, 15 May 2006.

My Thoughts as I read through these:

If we see homosexuality as a sin you can't forget the mantra, "Hate the sin, love the sinner."

Can’t regulate our religion, but we can defend a moral society. This subject is difficult b/c it doesn’t directly infringe upon our rights, but can through potential societal harm of 1) promoting raising children w/o male and female parents rather than making the best of situations when it arises, 2) lower moral compass for society.

It isn’t healthy or democratic for one camp or another to try and ridicule the other into silence.

On the other hand, I feel for those who have SSA, I believe that for some SSA is from a genetic predisposition, not a self induced mental condition. One of the saddest things in my life was seeing the pain that a SSA person went through trying to deal with their SSA and religious society’s general naïve view of it.

Would it have been better for the church to sit quietly on the side and avoid being the "poster child" for anti prop 8 issues? At the same time, when were we a church that didn’t stand up for morality?

The church leadership obviously feels that w/o marriage being defined as between a man and a woman, society will continue to erode at a faster pace and potentially the church will lose some of its religious freedoms in the name of equality. The Church canon, including the BOM state that we should not impose our beliefs on others. At the same time we should help strengthen the moral backbone of society as a responsibility to our God and future generations.

This post isn't meant to be an end all for information on the church's stance or how you should feel about the subject. It is mainly to explore some of the statements given and some of my thoughts on the subject. To me the question is not whether or not the Church should change its position on SSA. The question should be, where is the line between imposing our religion on others and helping keep the moral fabric of society strong. Allowing SSMs to have many equal rights, but not all seems to be what the church is stating. Where that line is though can be difficult to draw...

Further links to church publication on this topic http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/same-sex-marriage-and-proposition-8

On a lighter note...

2009-10-13T20:52:00.000-07:00

I like fringe music that nobody else listens to. Sometimes though, that creates a problem in that you can't get the music because nobody has it! Case in point, one of my new favorite songs...Crush Me by Go Periscope. I can't get it legally (Itunes, artist's website) or illegally. Believe me, I've tried both. I did a Google search and only got two hits for the lyrics. TWO single hits in the entire WWW. Anyway, here you can listen to it if you are interested. But, you can't buy it. It has a little of my two current favorite musical ingredients, 8 bit and extra synthesis.

Go Periscope Live @ C89.5 Listener Appreciation Party 3 from Go Periscope on Vimeo.

Conference of Hope

2009-10-06T12:21:00.000-07:00

I enjoyed conference a lot this year. Someone recently brought this article to my attention knowing of my previous posts on the difficult times ahead. I thought it was very interesting. I'll cut and paste the parts that really seemed significant to me...

http://www.ldsmag.com/lineuponline/091006conference.html

Remember General Conferences when we were told to grow gardens, put in a supply of food, prepare 72-hour kits, get out of debt, and put our houses in order by preparing every needful thing?

The Church’s instructions on provident living still stand, of course, and there are wonderful resources available to help us. But when was the last time such counsel received significant attention in General Conference?

As best I can recall, there was a turning point when President Hinckley, after an extensive sermon in a priesthood session on financial preparations, said, “Now that’s all I’m going to say about that.” It may have been the last time he mentioned physical preparations in a General Conference address.

During the five sessions of conference just completed, I attempted to write down every admonition, instruction, exhortation, suggestion or recommendation given by the speakers. I collected 430 items of counsel in all, but…

No one talked about food storage
No one advised putting together emergency kits
No one exhorted us to get out of debt
No one said to grow a garden
There were only three references to financial matters (Elder Watson, Bishop Burton and Elder Christofferson) and all of them were warnings against excesses and greed, not about preparations.

...
Having a house full of wheat, beans and rice will be insufficient if we are not strong in spirit and mind as we face prophesied events.

* * *

With that in mind though, many of the talks focused on how to be positive despite the difficult times we now face, and may have to face in the future. The Church even has a new section of their web page devoted to this topic of hope. It is prominently featured on their home page or you can go there directly from here http://www.lds.org/topic/hope/.

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Peculiar

2009-09-30T22:14:00.000-07:00

Peter identified members of the Church as “a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.” (1 Pet. 2:9). President Hinckley referred to this frequently as president. I've become friends with a few Evangelical Christians over the past few years since I left Utah. They seem to fit this description a little better than we do as a people. Is that bad or good? They sometimes can be annoying and awkward with their...I'm not sure how to describe it other than guileless religious social norms.

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I listen to audio books on my way too and from work. I usually have a list of ones I would like to listen to, but I finished that list and randomly picked one at the library on my last visit. I don't remember the title right now, but it is definitely written for an openly Christian audience. It isn't as in your face as some of the evangelicals that I have met, but it is more so than I am in my life.

For example, I do not frequently say to my wife that I feel so blessed for all that I have and grab her hands to offer a prayer of gratitude. I do the first half, but not usually the second. I feel a little guilty about that on one hand when I think of that. On the other, it seems a little weird....is that because I'm not as much "in the world, but not of the world" as I should be? In my/our effort to be main stream have I been tainted just enough to see that as weird and awkward?

Maybe its just a different style of worshiping. Mormons are definitely more on the reverent side of the spectrum when compared to other Christian religions. In the end, it is interesting that it made me pause and think enough to motivate a post after 2 months of nothing else quite being strong enough!

Slate on Mormonism Perseverance

2009-08-06T16:40:00.000-07:00

Slate has recently released an article on how Mormonism could save the USA if it were to collapse from political/social/environmental causes. Very interesting article, though he did get some simple things wrong. For example, "upon his resurrection, Jesus Christ will rule on American soil." He doesn't know that all Christians believe Jesus was already resurrected. Big miss there.

It was interesting that he used the word clannish. I think that was his kind attempt to avoid the distasteful (to us) word cultish. I like his description of us, "They are just like us, only they're always on their best behavior." I'm glad he was candid and honest without any of the incorrect, negative preconceived notions that tend to be written about us by those on the outside.

Visions

2009-06-26T21:00:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Visions. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

Below are some links to various visions about the last days and more specifically, what will happen in the Americas during the last days. I have roughly put them into three tiers. These represent my personal opinions on the validity of the revelations. Some were hard to categorize for various reasons, so take these all with a grain of salt...I hesitated to post these at all for several reasons.

Tier 1:

Heber C. Kimballs Skip to page 2 the first time you read it.
Iohani Wolfgramm : Scroll down a little to the the 15 sentences or so between the two black lines. See also this Ensign article (Article title = Miracles) where Elder Oaks talks about Iohani raising someone from the dead, and this thread in which someone (Darren) know him well and talks about him or Iohani's tape from the mission field (see post 10 on this fourth page) where he describes receiving his vision. The most striking thing here is how he states when the start of the economy collopse will occur. Note, he doesn't say how long this will take, just when the ball will start rolling.
John Taylor "Destruction"
Elder Joseph Fielding Smith talk

Tier 2:

Charles D Evans Either the Church patriarch or a church patriarch
Hancock Prophecy Scroll down to post 11, also see this Church News article which helps corroborate this event
John Taylor "Horseshoe Prophecy"
Stephen M Farnsworth Scroll down to page 142 (starts on 138)
George Albert Smith Also, the following is a note from someone about this vision:
A friend of mine at work said he called David Horne the guy that wrote down [this] prophecy, within the last two weeks and talked to him about it. Brother Horne said that his brother, who was there when [President Smith] said it, reviewed the document and didn't agree with the "Greek" part of that prophecy. David Horne regretted writing it down as the "Greek" President. I'll post the exact e-mail that my friend sent me. Everything else was right....like not being of North American descent....so don't get hung up on the Greek part. Also the prophecy suggests the non-North American President is the sitting president...not the president elect...

Tier 3: I do not put much stock in these at all. There tends to be a feeling of carnality associated with people who get really into things like the following. They are too much gloom and doom. I'm not saying that they all are all incorrect or from bad people. They are a good sampling of others out there that are similar so I have posted these. Remember that we are told, "If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear." These to not do that for me and therefore, I don't think they should be much more than a help to you to establish your thoughts on the entire spectrum of the subject. People that do get into these tend to make incorrect predictions and overzealous decisions that they later regret...don't go down that road.

Other Important Items:

Vaughn J. Featherstone This is a very good talk about what will happen and how the temples will be a protection for the saints.

World War III

2009-06-22T14:19:00.001-07:00

This is for subject World War III. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

Then President George Albert Smith said, "I have had a troublesome vision of another great and terrible war that made the war just ended look like a training exercise, and people died like flies. It began at a time when the Soviet Union's military might dwarfed that of the United States, and we, that is the United States, would have missiles that carried an atomic bomb in Europe. I saw the United States, withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began."

He also said that we would have big missiles in deep holes he described like grain silos which the Soviets would try to destroy by their own missiles. They would hit military installations and certain cities also. He said that the President at that time would be of Greek extraction. Until then all the presidents would be of British or Northern European ancestry. He continued that the U.S. would be bound by numerous entangling alliances and would take away weapons owned by the people.

He talked some about the initial attack and the ground warfare, but I can't remember enough to document all their tactics and in which countries various things occurred. One tactic, especially in Europe, was to transport thousands of tanks in big trucks like semi trailers on the super highways to have them located where they wanted them when the war was to begin. During that explanation I asked, What about the Atomic Cannon? to which he answered, "I didn't see anything like that." Then he said, "The aftermath was dreadful. Think of the worst, most difficult times of the depression." He turned to us children and said, "You won't remember the depression," which was true. I didn't know there was a depression as I was growing up; the sun came up every morning, flowers bloomed, we went to school, and there was church every Sunday. But he repeated to our parents, "Think of the worst condition of the depression. Can you think of something? to which our father answered, "Oh yes, then President Smith continued, "You know how Sunday School picnics are complete with salad, chicken, root beer, and dessert, and everyone has a wonderful time? That worst time of the depression will seem like a Sunday School picnic when compared with how conditions will be after that great war." (Signed by D. Horn, 26 March 1989, SLC, Ut, Unpublished, Copyrighted, and signed statement dated 26 March 1989)

From his signed statement Horn explains, “I am a son of Dr. Lyman Merrill Horne and Myrtle Swainston Horne. My father was a g—grandson of George A. Smith, cousin of the Prophet Joseph and Counselor to Brigham Young. His grandson President George Albert Smith was dad's mother's first cousin. From 1944 until March 1947 we lived on the same block in the Yale Ward as George Albert Smith and frequently had contact with him. Many times he paused at our home while on his evening walk and talked with me as I worked in our front yard. My family visited him a few times at his home, and he visited my family at our hone several times. He always showed pleasure when I met hint and once told me what work the Lord had for me to do and what I must do to be prepared to do His work.

One day our father arranged for George Albert Smith to speak to us in a family time. The Prophet told us of a vision he had had. At least 11 elements of it have occurred, and the rest may occur soon My record of his prophecy may be important, because it may not be officially recorded. Last year I visited the Church Historian's Library to read Pres Smith's journal to see what he had written about it but the staff knew nothing about it. I then discussed itwith Leonard Arrington, former Church Historian, who said, "I have never heard of it." Even Arthur Haycock, his faithful secretary, did not know of it, but he did not work with Pres. Smith until July 1947.”

Attached to his statement is a letter from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Office of the First Presidency dated December 9, 1988. This letter addressed stated in part, "Reference is made to your copyrighted letter dated October 20, 1988, which you describe as a paper documenting your recollections of a visit by George Albert Smith to your home....We are advised by the Historical Department that in conference talks there are found references by President Smith to atomic bombs, wickedness, and great destruction. The repeated message in these talks is that the people should repent in order to avoid these problems."

According to his diary, this prophecy was made the day after Joseph made his final speech to the Nauvoo Legion (Wednesday, June 19, 1844; eight days before his martyrdom). After telling how the Prophet discussed a map of the West and foretold the route the Saints would follow in their western exodus, Hancock records Joseph Smith statement to him that, "There will be two great political parties in this country.

One will be called the Republicans* and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party.

The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, 'Let's divide up the lands of the United States'. Then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided.

Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up - when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, 'Brethren, we are glad you have come, give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God'. Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when it's (sic) liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

(Mosiah Lyman Hancock, Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, p.29). Mosiah Hancock, son of a close friend and bodyguard of Joseph Smith, recorded an important prophecy as having been made by the Prophet.

*See Hancock Prophecy

Will the constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, “The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.” It will be so. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854).

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

We Should Understand and Look for the Signs

2009-06-22T14:18:00.000-07:00

This is for subject We Should Understand and Look for the Signs . To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

FYI…”I make this broad declaration, that whenever God gives a vision or an usage, or beast, or figure of any kind, He always holds Himself responsible to give a revelation or interpretation of the meaning thereof, otherwise we are not responsible or accountable for our belief in it. Don't be afraid of being damned for not knowing the meaning of a vision or figure, if God has not given a revelation or interpretation of the subject.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 5:342-45)

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

Mathew 24:42-50

Watch therefore for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready...but if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming...the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him.

Rev 1:3 (JST)

Blessed are they who read, and they who hear and understand the words of this prophesy.

Ether 8:22-26

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed...
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you...
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you...

D&C 45:39, 44

39 And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.

44 And then they shall look for me, and, behold, I will come; ...and he that watches not for me shall be cut off.

D&C 88:77, 79

77 And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.

79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms.

PoGP, JS Matt 1:22

For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

Acceptance of these vivid signs of the times can lead mankind back to God in this day of widespread unbelief. Ignoring them may bring a tragedy like that of two thousand years ago. (CR, M Petersen OCT:1965)

I hope that we are familiar with these coming events; I hope also that we keep the vision of them continually before our minds. This I do because upon a knowledge of them rests the efficacy of Christ's admonition; be not troubled (D&C 45:34-35). (CR, Marion G. Romney OCT:1966)

There are many important gospel doctrines mentioned in the Bible only briefly and some not at all. The new birth is mentioned in the Bible nine times; baptism is mentioned 52 times, repentance is mentioned 89, but the second coming of Christ is mentioned over 1,500 times in the Old Testament and 300 times in the New Testament. If God thought this subject that important, he must have wanted us to do something about it. (CR, SW Sill APR:1966)

Is it not our duty to read these things and understand them? Don't you think the Lord has given us these things that we might know and we might prepare ourselves through humility, through repentance, through faith, that we might escape from these dreadful conditions that are portrayed by these ancient prophets? That is why I am reading them. (Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, November 18, 1942, in Barratt Hall)

The Righteous Have No Need To Fear

2009-06-22T14:17:00.000-07:00

This is for subject The Righteous Have No Need To Fear. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

(Though It Will Not Be Easy section is below this section)

My thoughts...We need to follow the prophet, be worthy for the influence of the spirit and be prepared as we have been counseled. If we do these three things, even though there will be difficult times, we will be ok. That doesn't mean bad things will not happen to the righteous.

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

Jarom 1:11

…look forward unto the Messiah, and believe in him to come as though he already was.

3 Nephi 20:41-42

41 And then shall a cry go forth: Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch not that which is unclean; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.

42 For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.

D&C 38:8, 9, 30

8 But the day soon cometh that ye shall see me, and know that I am; for the veil of darkness shall soon be rent, and he that is not purified shall not abide the day.
9 Wherefore, gird up your loins and be prepared. Behold, the kingdom is yours, and the enemy shall not overcome.

30...but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.

D&C 45:32

But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

D&C 45:66-71

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.

D&C 97:25

Nevertheless, Zion shall escape if she observe to do all things whatsoever I have commanded her.

PoGP, Moses 7:61

...and a veil of darkness shall cover the earth; and the heavens shall shake, and also the earth; and great tribulations shall be among the children of men, but my people will I preserve.

...the faithful of God's people will see days that will cause them to close their eyes because of the sorrow that will come upon the wicked nations. The hearts of the faithful will be filled with pain and anguish for them.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 123)

The appliances for making learning easy surpass all conjecture. Chemistry was rendered extremely simple, by the power which the Urims conferred on man of looking into and through the very elements of every kind; a stone furnished no more obstruction to human vision than the air itself. Not only were the elements and all their changes and transformations plainly understood, but the construction, operations and laws of mind were thus rendered equally plain as those which governed the coarser elements. (Charles D. Evans, Springville, Utah; The Contributor [later became the Improvement Era], Vol. 15, pp. 638-840. 1893; TRUTH 1:12, pp. 161-163)

...but while the wicked fear and tremble at surrounding judgments, the Saints will watch and pray; and, waiting the final event in patience, will look calmly on the passing scenery of a corrupted world, and view transpiring events s confirmation of their faith in the holy gospel which they profess, and rejoice more and more, as multiplied signs shall confirm the approach of the millennial day. (Fifth General Epistle of the Presidency of the Church, issued April 7, 1851, found in Millennial Star, Vol. 13, p.210, July 15, 1851)

I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, 'Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year’s supply? Do we have to share with them?' No, we don’t have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve to death after sharing, 'greater love hath no man than this …' (John 15:13.) Now what about those who would plunder and break in and take that which we have stored for our families’ needs? Don’t give this one more idle thought. There is a God in heaven whom we have obeyed. Do you suppose he would abandon those who have kept his commandments? He said, 'If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.' (D&C 38:30.) Prepare, O men of Zion, and fear not. Let Zion put on her beautiful garments. Let us put on the full armor of God. Let us be pure in heart, love mercy, be just, and stand in holy places. (Bishop Featherstone from the April 1976 General Conference)

Though It Will Not Be Easy

There is a real sifting going on in the church it will sift the wheat from the tares, because we face some difficult days. And those days are going to require faith and testimony and family unity, the like of which we have never had. (CR, Ezra Taft Benson OCT:1974)

D&C, 63:34

And the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of my Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire.

Can you tell me where the people are who will be shielded and protected from these great calamities and judgments which are even now at our doors? I'll tell you. The priesthood of God who honor their priesthood, and who are worthy of their blessings, are the only ones who shall have their safety and protection. They are the only mortal beings. No other people have a right to be shielded from these judgments. They are at our very doors; not even this people will escape them entirely. They will come down like the judgments of Sodom and Gomorrah. And none but the priesthood will be safe from their fury. (CR, Marion G. Romney, Apr:1951)

Significant Events to Happen Still

2009-06-22T14:16:00.001-07:00

This is for subject Significant Events to Happen Still. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

I. Items in topic specific documents: second civil war, cleansing of church, etc.

II. Missionaries to be called home.

A. “The judgments of God will be poured out upon the wicked to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called hom. Or, in other words, the gospel will be taken from the Gentiles and later on will be carried to the Jews.” - Heber C. Kimball, Deseret News, Church Department, May 23, 1931, p. 3.

B. Speaking of calamities, Brigham Yound said, “When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, “Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,” all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and feaful destruction.” - Brigham Yound, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 123, July 15, 1860.

C. When God has called out the righteous, when the warning voice has been sufficiently proclaimed among the gentile nations, and the Lord says, “It is enough,” he will also say to his servants – 'O, ye, my servants, come home , come out from the midst of these Gentile nations, where you have labored and borne testimony for so long a period; come out from among them, for they are not worthy...'” - Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 18, p. 64, July 25, 1875. See also D&C 43:21-22.

III. Adam-ondi-aman

A. This may not be a meeting that is well known even among members of the church

IV. 144,000 preaching after AOA

V. America is sealed off

VI. Savior comes to the Mount of Olives

VII. No rainbow for a year

VIII. Battle of Armageddon

IX. Battle of Gog and Magog

X. Boston and New York destroyed

XI. Return of the City of Enoc

XII. Great hail storm(s)

A. D&C 29:16

B. Ezekiel 38:22

C. Rev 16:21

XIII. Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, do it prior to the killing of the two prophets

A. Ezekiel 47:1-10

B. Rev 11:1-3

C. History of the Church, Joseph Smith 5:337

D. When you see the nations of the earth, especially the heathen nations, and also those north of Jerusalem--the great nation of Russia and other nations on the continent of Asia, together with many in Europe, gather up against Jerusalem after the Jews have returned and rebuilt their city and Temple. Journal of Discourses, Orson Pratt, 15:338

XIV. Two prophets killed

A. History of the Church, Joseph Smith 5:337

XV. Water come out from under the temple

A. History of the Church, Joseph Smith 5:337

B. Ezekiel 47:1-7

C. Joel 3:18

D. Zechariah 14:8

XVI. Waters of the Dead Sea be healed

A. History of the Church, Joseph Smith 5:337

B. Ezekiel 47:8

XVII.

Second Civil War (AKA Cleansing of America) & Local Gatherings

2009-06-22T14:15:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Second Civil War (AKA Cleansing of America) & Local Gatherings. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

My thoughts…Often it can be hard to tell the difference between the second civil war, the general wars and rumors of wars, and the wars in other parts of the world when the America's are separated from the rest. This is a collection of those statements that refer to the second civil war and potentially a war where the Church saves the constitution. It can be hard to know if those latter two are the same one or different.

Were we surprised when the last terrible war took place here in the United States? No; good Latter-day Saints were not, for they had been told about it. Joseph Smith had told them where it would start, that it should be a terrible time of bloodshed and that it should start in South Carolina. But I tell you today the end is not yet. You will see worse things than that, for God will lay his hand upon this nation, and they will feel it more terribly than ever they have done before; there will be more bloodshed, more ruin, more devastation than never they have seen before. Write it down! You will see it come to pass; it is only just starting in. And would you feel to rejoice? No; I would feel sorry. I knew very well myself when this last war was commencing, and could have wept and did weep, over this nation; but there is yet to come a sound of war, trouble and distress, in which brother will be arrayed against brother, father against son, son against father, a scene of desolation and destruction that will permeate our land until it will be a vexation to hear the report thereof. (John Taylor JD, 20:318)

That war [American Civil War]…was nothing, compared to that which will eventually devastate that country. The time is not very far distant in the future, when the Lord God will lay his hand heavily upon that nation. "How do you know this? inquires one." I know from the revelations which God has given upon this subject. I read these revelations, when they were first given...What then will be the condition of that people, when this great and terrible war shall come? It will be very different from the war between the North and the South,...It will be a war of neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, county against county, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed and manufacturing will, in a great measure, cease, for a time, among the American nation. Why? Because in these terrible wars, they will not be privileged to manufacture, there will be too much blood-shed—too much mobocracy—too much going forth in bands and destroying and pillaging the land to suffer people to pursue any local vocation with any degree of safety. What will become of millions of the farmers upon that land? They will leave their farms and they will remain uncultivated, and they will flee before the ravaging armies from place to place; and thus will they go forth burning and pillaging the whole country... A time is coming when the great and populous city of New York—the greatest city of the American Republic, will be left without inhabitants. The houses will stand, some of them, not all. They will stand there, but unoccupied, no people to inherit them. It will be the same in regard to numerous other cities, or, in the words of the Lord, "I will throw down all their strongholds, and I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard." It will all be fulfilled… the heathen will be spared longer than these Gentile nations who have had the scriptures in their midst, but would not obey them (Elder Orson Pratt. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 20, pp 151-153, Delivered at the London conference, March 9^th, 1879.)

“For without Zion, and a place of deliverance, we must fall; because the time is near when the sun will be darkened, and the moon turn to blood, and the stars fall from the heaven, and the earth reel to and fro. Then, if this is the case, and if we are not sanctified and gathered to the places God has appointed, with all our former professions and our great love for the Bible, we must fall; we cannot stand; we cannot be saved; for God will gather out his Saints from the Gentiles, and then comes desolation and destruction, and none can escape except the pure in heart who are gathered.” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.70)

When the people shall have been gathered in fulfillment of this prophecy, judgments will again be visited upon the wicked, as a necessary consequence. Will such visitations really take place? Yes, I know that this part, too, of the Lord’s designs will be fulfilled, for God revealed it to me long, long ago. We need not be too anxious for the destruction of the wicked, for it will be indeed terrible when it comes, it will make every feeling man weep for sorrow over the trouble and affliction that will come. (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 26 vol., 18, p.332 – 333)

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.17)

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

Mathew 24:37-39

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

D&C 45:31

And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

“Do you think there is calamity abroad now among the people? Not much. All we have yet heard and all we have experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, 'Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,' all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction. What maters the destruction of a few reailway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself behond its bounds, engulphin mighty cities. Famine will spread over the nations, and nation will rise up kingdom against kingdom, and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands; and they will destroy each other, caring not for the blood and lives of their neighbours, of their families, or their own lives. They will be like the Jaredites who preceded the Nephites upon this continent, and will destroy each other to the last man, through the anger that the Devil will place in their hearts, because they have rejected the words of life and are given over to Stan to do whatever eh listeth to do with them. You may think that the little you hear of now is grievous; yet the faithful of God's people will see days that will cause them to close their eyes because of the sorrow that will come upon the wicked nations. The hearts of the faithful will be filled with pain and anguish for them.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 123)

“… My brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860’s between the North and the South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner as possible.” (This was a letter from Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser on July 24, 1896, A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives)

Note – the authenticity of these papers is questionable according to my research.

“I heard Joseph Smith nearly thirty years ago, 'they shall have mobbings to their hearts' content, if they do not redress the wrongs of the Latter-day Saints.' Mobs will not decrease but will increase until the whole government becomes a mob, and eventually it will be State against State, city against city, neighborhood against neighborhood, Methodists against Methodists, and so on.” (Brigham Young, Deseret News, Vol. 9, p. 2, May 1, 1861)

New York, Boston, Albany, and numerous other cities will be left desolate. Party will be arrayed in deadly strife against party; State against State; and the whole nation will be broken up; the sanguinary weapons of the dreadful revolution will devour the land. Then shall there be a fleeing from one city to another, from one State to another, from one part of the continent to another, seeking refuge, from the devastations of bandits and armies... (Orson Pratt, Millennial Star, Vol. 28, pp. 633-634, October 6, 1866)

I saw men hunting the lives of their own sons, and brother murdering brother, women killing their own daughters, and daughters seeking the lives of their mothers. I saw armies arrayed against armies. I saw blood, desolation, fires. The Son of man has said that the mother shall be against the daughters, and the daughter against the mother. These things are at our doors. They will follow the Saints of God from city to city. Satan will rage, and the spirit of the devil is now enraged. I know not how soon these things will take place; but with a view of them, shall I cry peace? No; I will lift up my voice and testify of them. How long you will have good crops, and the famine be kept off, I do not know; when the fig tree leaves, know then that the summer is nigh at hand. (Joseph Smith Teachings of the Prophet JS Section Four 1839-42, p.161) and (Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, p 240)

By and by the nations will be broken up on account of their wickedness, the Latter-day Saints are not going to move upon them with their little army, they will destroy themselves with their wickedness and immorality. They will contend and quarrel with one another, state after state and nation after nation, until they are broken up, and thousands, tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands will undoubtedly come and seek protection at the hands of the servants of God…We have received revelation and, accordingly, we are here in these mountain valleys, and we are going to stay here. We shall cultivate our farms, and lay foundation for a time when the nations shall be broken up. Multitudes will then flee to these valleys of the mountains for safety, and we shall extend protection to them. You may say, shall you require them to be baptized and to become Latter-day Saints? Not by any means. I meet with gentlemen from time to time, from different portions of the Union. I never offer them my religious views unless they seek them. I am not anxious to push my religious views upon any man. I will do them all the good I can. (Elder Lorenzo Snow, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp 300-309)

Question: When will the temple be built in Independence?

Answer: Right after the great tribulation is over

Question: What do you mean by that?

Answer: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be the smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates and peace all over.

(An interview by Dr. Poulson with David Whitmer, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878)

Persecution Against the Church

2009-06-22T14:14:00.001-07:00

This is for subject Persecution Against the Church. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

Heber C Kimball states that "the time is not far distant when the curtain will be dropped between us and the United States. When that time comes, brethren and sisters, you will wish you had commenced sooner to make your own clothing. I tell you, God requires us to go into home manufacture; and, prolong it as much as you like, you have got to do it. You will also see the day that you will wish you had laid up your grain, if you do not do it now." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.10)

Daniel and John each saw the opposition the little horn made against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This opposition will continue until the grand council is held at Adam-ondi-Ahman. This "little horn" (Dan. 7:20-22; Rev. 13) is making a renewed and determined effort today to destroy the Church. The Lord has decreed otherwise and while its power will last until Michael comes and the Son of Man receives his rightful place, this great power will endure. It must, however, fall, and according to the scriptures its end will come rather suddenly. (D. & C. 29:21; 1 Nephi 13:1-9; Rev. Chapters 17-18.) Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, vol 4, p: 44

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

Ether 8:22-24

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you;

New Jerusalem

2009-06-22T14:13:00.000-07:00

This is for subject New Jerusalem. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

3 Nephi 21:22-23

But if they (the Gentiles) will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance; And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.

D&C 45:66-71

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.

My thoughts on the above verses…when it says that the wicked will not come unto it I think it is after the cleansing of America (see topic with same title) and therefore refer to the rest of the world not coming to fight America. It could also refer to what will happen during the cleansing and be the reason why we are safe and protected wherever we gather.

D&C 61:14-16

14 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.

15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart.

D&C 84:2-4

2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.

3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

PoGP, Moses 7:62-64

62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;

64 And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest.

Zion must be redeemed before the coming of Christ, the temple must be built upon the consecrated spot, the cloud and glory of the Lord rest upon it, and the Lamanites, many of them, brought in, and they must build up the New Jerusalem. (JD, Orson Pratt 3:18-19)

Q: When will the temple be built at Independence?
A: Right after the great tribulation is over.
Q: What do you mean by that?
A: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.
Q: Will you live and see those things?
A: It was said to us, that the second great work should commence when nearly all the witnesses to the first plates had passed away, so I may live and see those things take place.
This conversation was mostly written down word for word half an hour after the interview with David Whitmer, esq., who will recognize it as his words, and I send it that the public may form a better idea about this truly remarkable man. (interview by Dr. Poulson with David Whitmer, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878)

When speaking about the New Jerusalem in relation to the prior gathering to Salt Lake City by others not of our religion, Elder Lorenzo Snow said the following, “You may say, shall you require them to be baptized and to become Latter-day Saints? Not by any means. I meet with gentlemen from time to time, from different portions of the Union. I never offer them my religious views unless they seek them. I am not anxious to push my religious views upon any man. I will do them all the good I can.” (Elder Lorenzo Snow, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp 300-309)

Four Gatherings to Zion

2009-06-22T14:11:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Four Gatherings to Zion. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

My thoughts…

Gathering from the world to Zion. Physical gathering to Nauvoo, Missouri, Salt Lake City, Etc. depending on the time it was in the early church.
Gathering out of the world into Zion, a spiritual gathering and a local gathering to the temples.
A potential gathering to local areas of both members and nonmember people that are good and want to avoid the evil of the world. Physical gathering.
Gathering to Jackson County, Missouri (probably not all saints) to build the New Jerusalem before the Savior returns and after the initial destructions in America and second civil war. A physical gathering.

Final Gathering to Zion

Re: gathering #3

Re: gathering #4

A foreign power had inroaded the nation, which, from every human indication, it appeared would seize the government and supplant it with monarchy. I stood trembling at the aspect, when, lo, a power arose in the west which declared itself in favor of the Constitution in its original form; to this suddenly rising power, every lover of constitutional rights and liberties throughout the nation gave hearty support. The struggle was fiercely contested, but the Stars and Stripes floated in the breeze, and bidding defiance to all opposition, waved proudly over the land...The light of the Gospel which had but dimly shone because of abomination, now burst forth with a lustre that filled the earth. Cities appeared in every direction, one of which, in the center of the continent, was an embodiment of architectural science after the pattern of eternal perfections... (Charles D. Evans, church patriarch, authorized by Church leadership for publication in The Contributor [later became the Improvement Era], Vol. 15, pp. 638-840. 1893; also found in TRUTH 1:12, pp. 161-163)

Destruction Cometh As A Whirlwind

2009-06-22T14:09:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Destruction Cometh As A Whirlwind. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

My thoughts…We are told that when things start they will progress rapidly.

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

D&C 63:6

Wherefore, verily I say, let the wicked take heed, and let the rebellious fear and tremble; and let the unbelieving hold their lips, for the day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind, and all flesh shall know that I am God.

D&C 97:22-24

For behold, and lo, vengeance cometh speedily upon the ungodly as the whirlwind; and who shall escape it?

The Lord’s scourge shall pass over by night and by day, and the report thereof shall vex all people; yea, it shall not be stayed until the Lord come; For the indignation of the Lord is kindled against their abominations and all their wicked works.

D&C 112:4

Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

PoGP, Matt 1:41-43

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mathew 24:37-39

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

…there is a great universal problem and that the Lord is inspiring his servants to warn the world before the whirlwind strikes. We were driving north on an Oklahoma highway and noted the afternoon sun going out of sight behind the clouds. The grayness got deeper and more ominous. We said, "It looks like a storm brewing." As darkness increased and the winds began to howl, we said, "This storm will be violent." As it broke with all its hellish fury we said, "This rain and wind have become a raging whirlwind." (Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1965, Afternoon Meeting, p.60)

O God, our Father, wilt thou grant us peace and security and safety in the days of tribulation that shall come like a whirlwind upon all the earth. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Ensign (CR), May 1979, p.92)

The world and many of the Saints abroad and at home are asleep, and that day will overtake them as a thief in the night, and it will come upon them like a whirlwind; and so it will you, if you do not wake up and listen to our words. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:176)

Common Misconceptions

2009-06-22T14:07:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Common Misconceptions. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

CM1 – Nothing too significantly bad or difficult will happen until after we are called to Jackson County.

A1 – See topics: Cleansing of the Church, Four Gatherings to Zion, New Jerusalem, Persecution Against the Church and Second Civil War.

CM2 – The gospel hasn't been preached to every country so the second coming can’t happen yet.

A2 – It doesn't say every country, it says “every nation” (Matt 24:14). When Joseph Fielding Smith was president he was going over signs of the times that have already occurred, “The gospel is being preached in all the world as a witness to every nation...all these things are signs of the near approach of our Lord.” (The Signs of the Lord's Coming, The Improvement Era, June 1966, p. 499)

CM3 – The year's worth of food storage is for the Saints when the rest of the world is suffering a famine.

A3a – “Lay up your wheat and other provisions against a day of need, for the day will come when they will be wanted, an no mistake about it. We shall want bread, and the gentiles will want bread, and if we are wise we shall have something to feed them and ourselves when famine comes.” (Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 18, p. 121, September 12, 1875)

A3b – I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, 'Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year’s supply? Do we have to share with them?' No, we don’t have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve to death after sharing, 'greater love hath no man than this …' (John 15:13.) Now what about those who would plunder and break in and take that which we have stored for our families’ needs? Don’t give this one more idle thought. There is a God in heaven whom we have obeyed. Do you suppose he would abandon those who have kept his commandments? He said, 'If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.' (D&C 38:30.) Prepare, O men of Zion, and fear not. Let Zion put on her beautiful garments. Let us put on the full armor of God. Let us be pure in heart, love mercy, be just, and stand in holy places. (Bishop Featherstone from the April 1976 General Conference)

CM4 – We will get the call from the prophet to move to Jackson County, Missouri before the second coming occurs.

A4 –

CM5 – We will have no idea when the Savior will return because the Christ said, “No man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh.”

A5 – "No man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh." . . . Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations? Oh no; he spoke in the present tense. No man that was then living upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour. But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should know the day or the hour. No, for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture, for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his servants the prophets [Amos 3:7]. Consequently, if it is not made known to the prophets it will not come to pass." Joseph Smith (Joseph Smith Commentary on the Bible, p. 112)

Cleansing of the Church

2009-06-22T14:04:00.000-07:00

This is for subject Cleansing of the Church. To see the original post, index to other posts and explanation of the collection go here.

President Benson talked very clearly about this growing division in the Church that we are experiencing. He said: “Sometimes we hear someone refer to a division in the Church. In reality, the Church is not divided. It simply means that there are some who, for the time being at least, are members of the Church but not in harmony with it. These people have a temporary membership and influence in the Church; but unless they repent, they will be missing when the final membership records are recorded.

“It is well that our people understand this principle, so they will not be misled by those apostates within the Church who have not yet repented or been cut off. But there is a cleansing coming. The Lord says that his vengeance shall be poured out "upon the inhabitants of the earth. . . . And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me. . . ." (D&C 112:24-26.) I look forward to that cleansing; its need within the Church is becoming increasingly apparent.” (God, Family, Country, pp. 253-56)

"But the word of the Lord unto us has declared that scourges in the shape of sickness shall be sent forth, beginning first at his house, and from thence they shall spread and make the nations quake." Orson Hyde (JD 16:13)

President Heber C. Kimball: Our sons and daughters must live pure lives so as to be prepared for what is coming. After a while the gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage. Persecution comes next and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and others will be still not knowing what to do. . . .Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to tests that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes. (Deseret News, Church Department, p. 3, May 23, 1931)

"Brothers and sisters… the Lord has clearly indicated that His purifying and sifting judgment would begin first at the house of God and then proceed outward to the world. (See 1 Pet. 4:17; D&C 112:25.) Just what this sifting will consist of is not now clear, what special pressures—combined with the ongoing and demanding rigors of “taking up the cross daily”—we know not. (See Luke 9:23.) We do know that the tempter’s triad of tools, identified by Jesus as temptation, persecution, and tribulation, will be relentlessly used. (See Matt. 13:21; Luke 8:13.)

And if the heat from the sun of such circumstances will scorch even a green tree, this heat will be very real. (See Luke 23:31; D&C 135:6; Alma 32:38.) Much sifting will occur because of lapses in righteous behavior which go unrepented of. A few will give up instead of holding out to the end. A few will be deceived by defectors. Likewise, others will be offended, for sufficient unto each dispensation are the stumbling blocks thereof! A few will stumble because, in their preoccupation with the cares of the world, they do not have oil in their lamps. And, again and again, those who refuse to eat their spiritual spinach will come off second when they wrestle with the world. Some, because of the scorn of the world, will grow ashamed and let go of the iron rod. (See 1 Ne. 8:28.) A few who have not been Saints, but merely tourists passing through, will depart from the path. A few, failing to be of good cheer, will even charge God foolishly. (See Job 1:22.)

Surely, brothers and sisters, already too many Church members have broken hearts and broken homes because of broken covenants and broken promises. Society’s increasing slide toward pleasure seeking brings our so-called civilization comparatively closer to Sodom than to Eden. In our striving to be prepared, therefore, let us be careful to rely on parents, priesthood, and principles—and on scriptures, and temples, and leaders who lead—to see us through." Neal A. Maxwell (“Be of Good Cheer,” Ensign, Nov. 1982, 68)

Scriptures are listed in chronological order for easy reference (OT, NT, BOM, D&C, PoGP)

1 Peter 4:17-18

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

End of Days

2009-06-22T13:49:00.000-07:00

This is the first and primary post of several dealing with events in the America’s before the second coming. This subject is one that has been on my mind for several months now. As usual, my OCD tends to make me create lists for organization. This helps me “see the forest for all the trees.” I keep several such as this one cataloging all the women in the Book of Mormon.

I will add to these posts as I continue to find quotes of interest that fit the parameters (which I’ll describe below). When I do, I’ll make a note here on this primary post so that those who want to follow this topic can do so with out having to wonder what is new and what you have already read.

Each post will be a different subject. They are: Cleansing of the Church, Common Misconceptions, Destruction Cometh as a Whirlwind, Four Gatherings to Zion, New Jerusalem, Persecution Against the Church, Second Civil War/Cleansing of America/Local Gatherings, Significant Events to Happen Still, The Righteous Have no Need to Fear, We Should Understand and Look for the Signs, World War III and Visions. I strongly recommend that you first read “The Righteous Have no Need to Fear.”

I want to stress that these chosen topics withing this subject are due to my personal opinion. That being said, as stated in the original post of this blog a few years ago, because of some personal history “I am a documentation nazi.” Thus, I have set up the following parameters for my documentation.

All quotes listed in the various topics are directly from the canonized scripture or from general authorities. The non scripture quotes must be documented in a currently accessible publication (for example, CR’s can be found here http://search.ldslibrary.com/article/view/0 and JofD can be found here http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses). I give preference to ones that were documented and published closer in time to the occurrence than those that were discussed and written down years after. Visions dealing with this subject are divided into three tiers that are discussed in that respective post.

So, why do I want to put this out here in the public? The information is out there but hard to weed through. If I want to do a search for Subacute Bacterial Endocarditis on Google it is easy to narrow down my search for what I want. If I want to search for something in the scriptures or LDS.org, it can be hard to narrow down my search and find which scriptures pertain to this subject and what their interpretations are. With these postings, I have a concentrated listing of well documented quotes for which I hope people will feel comfortable suggesting additions. Also, as I have done this research I have come to the conclusion that some general members of the LDS faith are unaware of or confused about much of this information. In essence, this is the collection of my further study as we are counseled to do.

We are charged to understand and look for the signs as shown in the just previous link and my post on the subject. Furthermore, my G-g-g-g-grandfather, Heber C. Kimball said the following:

Our sons and daughters must live pure lives so as to be prepared for what is coming. …all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and others will be still not knowing what to do. . . Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to tests that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes. (Deseret News, Church Department, p. 3, May 23, 1931)

There are many more scriptures and quotes that talk of these subjects, but I wanted only the best of the best that are straight forward and fairly obvious to be used here. If you know of others that fit these parameters, please feel free to email them to me. My email for this is eofd888calderwood.org. Just replace the 8’s with the at sign.

Another disclaimer…I’m not saying we are at the time that these events are going to happen, but for the first time in my life I think we are at a time where the situation is such that they could conceivably happen. Before, too many things hadn’t happened or too much would have to change for other things to occur. Now it is conceivable that they could happen...

Updates:

2009-07-05

1-added text to the common misconceptions post from Joseph Smith about knowing the time when the Saviour will come.

2009-06-27

Added several comments and organization to the visions post

2009-06-26

1.second civil war document has new quote at end from David Whitmer

2.second civil war document added note to the musser papers reference

3.second civil war doc rearranged the scripture quotes to follow proper format

4.added “*See Hancock Prophecy” to the end of WWIII document

5.created the Hancock prophecy and HP note pdf

6.added David whitmer quote to the New Jerusalem topic

7.moved Lorenzo Snow quote in the New Jerusalem topic to follow proper format

8.Added Ether scripture to Persecution against church topic

9.Added Ether scripture to we should understand and look for the signs topic

10.Added the link to the visions post and the post itself

2009-06-22 Original Posting

Does life work like a video game?

2009-05-09T22:20:00.000-07:00

I have had a few experiences recently that made me wonder how God manages our faith and blessings. It is easy for me to imagine that he runs us like we would run little people in a game of "SimPersonal Life."

An easy case would be if we need a blessing and fast for it. By fasting or doing good deeds we accumulate potential blessing points. If you are asking for an answer to whom you should marry, it would cost you 50 potential blessing points. If you want to cure a physical ill, it would cost significantly more, say 150 potential blessing points.

Sounds easy right? When you involve faith, others and others' faith it becomes complicated. For example, if you have a lot of faith it will lower the physical ill potential blessing points requirement to 125. If others have faith it can lower that amount some more. Joseph Smith said that your faith to be healed when receiving a blessing is more powerful than your faith to heal when giving one. So if person A needs a blessing and they have X amount of faith it will lower their needed total 30 points. If person B needs the same blessing and person A gives them the blessing with the same X amount of faith, it only lowers the needed point total by 20.

To make things even more difficult, what happens when you need that healing blessing, everybody comes together and you only totaled 149 points when you needed 150? Do you get a partial blessing or is it all or nothing?

I imagine that things do work similar to this, but on a much more complex level such as throwing in things like do you need the faith promoting experience, will it help you carry out something else in your life that God needs you to do, etc.? Although I have never conceived it in this way before, my lifelong wish has been to understand God's scoring system and what point tallies I need for the various blessing I wish I could get. I think if I knew that one blessing required 500 points, I wouldn't even try. On the other hand, if I knew that I was short just a few points on another blessing I would have tried a littler harder instead of giving up with a hopeless frustration that I never got an answer. Life would be a lot more manageable that way.

Swine Flu

2009-04-30T10:59:00.000-07:00

As a doctor focused on the mouth, I would recommend not doing the following right now....

I can't resist

2009-04-19T22:32:00.000-07:00

I really don't want to discuss this topic because of its debased and crass nature. In fact, those words don't adequately describe the expression that is being flippantly tossed around like a joke on the back of a Laffy Taffy. I will discuss it because I can't believe that we have digressed as a society to the point that prime time news casters can repeatedly use the term teabagger/teabagging without fear of viewer backlash or even shame from lack of proper public respectability. Furthermore, they not only glibly use those terms, but use them with many explicit puns to further paint the degenerate mental images in your mind. Don't believe me or have any idea what I am talking about? Watch the following video...

Just in case there is any misunderstanding on this subject, if you aren't crystal clear on the incredibly foul and disgusting definition of this term, click here and see definition #2. WARNING - the definition is x-rated. Am I a prude or overly sensitive? I don't think so. I tend to be somewhere in the middle on most subjects. My liberal friends think I'm too conservative ,and my conservative friends think I'm too liberal. I'm just surprised there wasn't a louder outcry at this.

The dirty E word

2009-04-06T18:39:00.000-07:00

As many of our friends know, Marisa and I both are strong proponents of evolution. We don't say that it is exactly the way that God created man and thus put a spirit in the offspring of some pre-Adamite's son and called him Adam. In fact, we don't believe that is the way things went down. Despite that, we are in agreement with many LDS biology professors that evolution is an incontrovertible fact! Those who don't agree, that I have met in person are uninformed. I have never met a person that understood the science and still felt that evolution is false. When I say that, I do mean the evolution of species in the forms that we see today. For a nice, short, honest synopsys of the subject see the following video:

So, if you disagree...tell me why. I'd love to see if I can make a believer of you ;-)

4 Minutes to save the world

2009-03-22T12:14:00.000-07:00

Starting a business in troubled economic times has made me hyper focused on the financial heartbeat of our country. Long term fears arise when I see so many "firsts" going on to try and strengthen or even bring back that heartbeat (depending on whose analysis of the patient [America] you listen to). Here is something that acknowledges potentially even worse times ahead, yet leaves you feeling positive at the end. So take four minutes to watch...

Man up!

2009-03-16T21:08:00.000-07:00

It seems like women like to forward emails and post on facebook lists where they ask questions about each other or post random facts about themselves. Most guys see these as lame. Although I like how they can help bring people closer together by learning new things about each other, most of them are pretty weak. An example of a weak question, "What did you eat for breakfast this morning?" Another weak list...filling out the checklist of someone else's 50 things they want to do before they die. Why not post what YOU want to do before you die? So in an attempt to put a manly spin on this and raise it up a notch (or three) I have decided to do something that has been floating around in my head for a while, but I haven't had the motivation or gumption to do it...until now.

So, post a comment to this ANONYMOUSLY and tell me what you think of me. Seriously, anything you have ever wanted to say...about me! Do it anonymously or I WILL delete it. If it isn't anonymous I won't believe it is honest and from your heart. I'll see it as trying to be nice because you like me or trying to be overly harsh because you don't like me. I'm VERY interested in knowing what others think of me, both positively and negatively. One, if everyone tells me I have bad breath, although embarrassing, it would be nice to know something like that assuming I didn't know it. In other words, good information. that I otherwise could not have known. Similarly, if everybody says that I need to stop caressing their hand when I shake it (and assuming I actually did this and was aware of it) then it would be good to know that it really did bother everybody. So, here's your chance. Let me have it!

Oh, and if you don't forward this same question to 10 of your own friends, that brown spot on your back will be cancer instead of a mole...or if you like positive luck, and if you do forward it, Microsoft will send you a $10 check for every friend that gets the email as part of their new tracking software beta testing program.

Edit:
BTW, if anyone is worried about me tracking comments I don't/can't figure out how to do that with the feed you see on the lower right. It just shows me areas that people are from if they have been to the website ever. It doesn't show where with time, just where over the history of the blog and percentages of the visitors from the countries represented. I tried a few times to change it, but never could figure it out. Click on the link and you will see.

Impressive teenager

2009-03-14T08:56:00.000-07:00

A viral video making the rounds lately is the following about a 13 year old boy who wrote a book on conservatism. If you know me well, you know that I do not tow the GOP party line. There are many so called liberal views that I adhere to. For example and in my own words: I'm conservative on how I destroy the environment, I'm conservative on the level of weapons leathalness that we should allow to be sold to citizens, I'm conservative on the amount of abortions we should allow (ie-similar to church policy rather than similar to pro-life movement). For those reason's I really like the description that this guy gives to conservativism.

Although not in the same caliber, this reminds me of how Mozart wrote Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star at the age of two! Some people just have a greater capacity that doesn't quite seem fair.

Up for a challenge?

2009-03-07T16:42:00.001-08:00

Because of my obsessive-compulsive disorder, I enjoy making lists. If you know me well, you know I have lists for everything. I think my OCD comes from an inability to remember well. So its coping mechanism or compensation driven disorder rather than an original innate problem.

Therefore, rather than just read the BOM I sometimes create lists of what's in it. Below I have included one of them. I CHALLENGE you to correct me or show its incompleteness. If you do, I would be happy, not mad because it would help complete the list some more.

Women in the Book of Mormon

Totals:

-6 by name: Sariah, Abish, Sarah, Mary, Eve and Isabel

-63 women mentioned specifically

-130 groups of people that include women by stating it or likely inferring it (this one is pretty weak by including all the mentioning of children, but I wanted it to be complete).

The data....

Sariah - wife of Lehi. 1 Nephi 2:5
Daughters of Ishmael (five). 1 Nephi 7:6
Wife of Ishmael. 1 Nephi 7:19
Wife of Nephi. 1 Nephi 18:19
Eve. 2 Nephi 2:18
Sisters of Nephi (at least two). 2 Nephi 5:6
Sarah - wife of Abraham. 2 Nephi 8:2
Lamanite daughters (24) - abducted by the priests of Noah. Mosiah 20:5
Mary - mother of Jesus. 1 Alma 7:10
Wife of King Lamoni. Alma 18:40
Abish - woman who helped when Lamoni and Ammon were passed out. Alma 19:16
Wife of the Lamanite king (Lamoni's parents). Alma 22:19
Isabel - a harlot in Siron who Corianton was with. Alma 39:3
Wife of the Lamanite king (that Amalickiah killed to marry). Alma 47:32
Morianton's Maid Servant - He beat her so she ran to Moroni and told him Morianton was planning on going with his people to the Northern lands. Alma 50:30
Nephite queen - wife of King Ammaron. Alma 52:12
Daughters of Jared (eight). Ether 6:20
Daughters of Orihah (eight). Ether 7:1
Daughter of Jared 2 - started the secret combination against her grandfather the king by getting Akish to want her for a wife. Ether 8:8
First wife of Coriantum. Ether 9:24
Second wife of Coriantum - married him when he was past 102. Ether 9:24

Not Specific

Children of Nephi. 1 Nephi 1:18
Daughters of Laman. 2 Nephi 4:3
Daughters of Lemuel. 2 Nephi 4:8
Nephite women - at time of Jacob's speech. Jacob 2:7
Nephite children - at time of Jacob's speech. Jacob 2:7
Wives of King David. Jacob 1:15
Concubines of King David. Jacob 1:15
Nephite women - at the time of King Benjamin's talk. Jacob 2:7
Nephite children - at the time of King Benjamin's talk. Jacob 2:7
Wives of King Solomon. Jacob 2:24
Concubinee of King Solomon. Jacob 2:24
Lamanite women. Jacob 3:7
Lamanite children. Jacob 3:7
Grandmothers - that came to hear King Mosiah's speach. Mosiah 2:5
Daughters - that came to hear King Mosiah's speach. Mosiah 2:5
Grandaughters - that came to hear King Mosiah's speach. Mosiah 2:5
Nephite wives - of Zeniff's group that returned to Zarahemla after the fight. Mosiah 9:2
Nephite children - of Zeniff's group that returned to Zarahemla after the fight. Mosiah 9:2
Lamanite children. Mosiah 10:17
Wives of King Noah. Mosiah 11:2
Concubines of King Noah. Mosiah 11:2
Wives of King Noah's priests. Mosiah 11:4
Concubines of King Noah's priests. Mosiah 11:4
Nephite women - fleeing with King Noah. Mosiah 19:9
Nephite children - fleeing with King Noah. Mosiah 19:9
Nephite fair daughters at the time of King Noah. Mosiah 19:13
Women - wives of the priests of Noah. Mosiah 20:3
Children - wives of the priests of Noah. Mosiah 20:3
Widows - left after the Lamanites attacked the people of Limhi. Mosiah 21:9
Fatherless children - left after the Lamanites attacked the people of Limhi. Mosiah 21:9
Lamanite wives - of the guards left over the Nephites in Helam. Mosiah 23:38
Lamanite children - of the guards left over the Nephites in Helam. Mosiah 23:38
Children of Amulon. Mosiah 24:8
Children of Alma. Mosiah 24:8
Wives of Alma and his people. Mosiah 24:22
Children of Alma and his people. Mosiah 24:22
Nephite daughters - married by the sons of Amulon. Mosiah 25:12
Nephite children - at the time of King Benjamin's talk. Mosiah 26:1
Nephite women - fleeing from the Lamanites and Amlicites away from their home in Minon. Alma 2:25
Nephite children - fleeing from the Lamanites and Amlicites away from their home in Minon. Alma 2:25
Nephite women - left alive after fighting with the Lamanites and Amlicites. Alma 3:1
Nephite women - left alive after fighting with the Lamanites and Amlicites. Alma 3:1
Nephite women - killed during the fighting with the Lamanites and Amlicites. Alma 3:2
Nephite children - killed during the fighting with the Lamanites and Amlicites. Alma 3:2
Amulek's women - family members. Alma 10:11
Amulek's children. Alma 10:11
Women believers of Ammonihah - burned in a fire. Alma 14:8
Children believers of Ammonihah - burned in a fire. Alma 14:8
Daughters of King Lamoni - he wanted Ammon to take one as a wife. Alma 17:24
Nephite women - who lost their family men in war. Alma 28:5
Nephite children - who lost their family men in war. Alma 28:5
Women fooled by Korihor. Alma 30:18
Zoramite women - converted by Ammon and driven out to Jershon. Alma 35:14
Zoramite children - converted by Ammon and driven out to Jershon. Alma 35:14
Other harlots with Isabel. Alma 39:11
Nephite women - Nephite men fought to save. Alma 43:9
Nephite children - Nephite men fought to save. Alma 43:9
Nephite children - men took arms to defend. Alma 48:24
Nephite women - men took arms to defend. Alma 48:24
Captured children Nephites - at the time of Moroni 1 who were taken back. Alma 54:3
Captured women Nephites - at the time of Moroni 1 who were taken back. Alma 54:3
Women Nephites - with the group of 10,000 Nephite warriors. Alma 56:28
Children Nephites - with the group of 10,000 Nephite warriors. Alma 56:28
Mothers of the strippling warriors. Alma 57:21
Captured women Nephites - at the time of Moroni 1 who were not taken back. Alma 58:30
Captured children Nephites - at the time of Moroni 1 who were not taken back. Alma 58:30
Nephite women - who left North with the 5,400 Nephite men. Alma 63:4
Nephite children - who left North with the 5,400 Nephite men. Alma 63:4
Nephite women who left with Hagoth. Alma 63:6
Nephite children who left with Hagoth. Alma 63:6
Nephite women in Zarahemla - slain by the Lamanites marching through. Helaman 1:27
Nephite children in Zarahemla - slain by the Lamanites marching through. Helaman 1:27
Nephite women - time of Nephite and Lamanite prosperity. Helaman 6:13
Nephite children - captured by the Gadianton robbers. Helaman 11:13
Nephite women - captured by the Gadianton robbers. Helaman 11:13
Lamanite children - lead away by Zoramites to join Gadianton robbers. 3 Nephi 1:29
Nephite women - left to fight the Gadianton robbers. 3 Nephi 2:12
Nephite children - left to fight the Gadianton robbers. 3 Nephi 2:12
Lamanite daughters that became converted. 3 Nephi 2:16
Nephite children - gathered by Lachoneus. 3 Nephi 3:13
Nephite women - gathered by Lachoneus. 3 Nephi 3:13
Mothers - buried at Moronihah- 3 Nephi 8:25
Fair daughters - buried at Moronihah- 3 Nephi 8:25
Children - buried at Moronihah- 3 Nephi 8:25
Nephite children - saw the Savior. 3 Nephi 17:25
Nephite women - saw the Savior. 3 Nephi 17:25
Nephite women - defended by the Nephite men from the Lamanites. Mormon 2:23
Nephite children - defended by the Nephite men from the Lamanites. Mormon 2:23
Nephite women - captured and sacrificed by the Lamanites. Mormon 4:14
Nephite children- captured and sacrificed by the Lamanites. Mormon 4:14
Nephite children- captured and sacrificed again by the Lamanites. Mormon 4:21
Nephite children- captured and sacrificed again by the Lamanites. Mormon 4:21
Nephite women - Mormon's time. Mormon 6:7
Nephite children - Mormon's time. Mormon 6:7
Nephite mothers - turned evil and killed by the Lamanites. Mormon 6:19
Nephite daughters - turned evil and killed by the Lamanites. Mormon 6:19
Daughters of the brother of Jared. Ether 6:16
Daughters of Korihor. Ether 7:4
Daughters of Jared 2. Ether 8:1
Daughters of Omer. Ether 8:4
Daughters of Emer. Ether 9:21
Daughters of Corianton. Ether 9:24
Daughters of Heth. Ether 9:25
Daughters of Shez. Ether 10:2
Wives - of Riplakish. Ether 10:5
Concubines - of Riplakish. Ether 10:5
Daughters of Kim - in captivity. Ether 10:14
Daughters of Levi. Ether 10:16
Daughters of Corom. Ether 10:17
Daughters of Lib. Ether 10:29
Daughters of Cohor. Ether 13:17
Daughters of Corihor. Ether 13:17
Daughters of Coriantumr. Ether 13:17
Jaredite women - around the time of Shared. Ether 14:2
Jaredite children - around the time of Shared. Ether 14:2
Women killed by Shiz - when he was fighting with Coriantumr. Ether 14:17
Children killed by Shiz - when he was fighting with Coriantumr. Ether 14:17
Children in the Army of Shiz - when he was fighting with Coriantumr. Ether 14:31
Women in the Army of Shiz - when he was fighting with Coriantumr. Ether 14:31
Women in the Army of Coriantumr - when he was fighting with Shiz. Ether 14:31
Children in the Army of Coriantumr - when he was fighting with Shiz. Ether 14:31
Jaredite women - millions killed. Ether 15:2
Jaredite children - millions killed. Ether 15:2
Jaredite children - those left to fight after the others were killed. Ether 15:15
Jaredite women - those left to fight after the others were killed. Ether 15:15
Nephite women - captured by the Lamanites. Moroni 9:7
Nephite children - captured by the Lamanites. Moroni 9:7
Lamanite daughters - taken and harmed by the people of Moriantum. Moroni 9:9
Daughters at Sherriza. Moroni 9:16
Widows at Sherriza - fainted and died for loss of food. Moroni 9:16
Nephite women - last left. Moroni 9:19
Nephite children - last left. Moroni 9:19

Food for thought

2009-02-27T08:24:00.000-08:00

Are these two questions the same, at their heart or even on the surface?

Evangelical Christian to the Mormon:

Why do you guys waste your time trying to convert Christians instead of focusing on those who don't already know Him?

Mormon to the Evangelical Christian:

Why do you guys waste so much time trying to break our faith when we believe in Christ and do so much good when you could put those effort towards fighting the evils of this world?

On the surface I think they are similar. Fundamentally, I think they are different.

Faith, Hope, Charity

2009-02-05T14:00:00.000-08:00

Almost three months and no posts! Things have been pretty crazy with opening the new office and putting out all the fires that came up last minute. This craziness has continued to a certain extend even though the office has been open for about 2 weeks now. Mainly, because I have moved on from the big things to all the little things. I have moved from the crazy psycho person level to now just crazy...or psycho, take your pick.

While laying in bed the other night waiting for Marisa to finish her get-ready-for-bed routine I was thinking of how I need to be more relaxed, both for me and for my family. Thinking of how to do this I realized that I have felt inspired to make various decision in my recent history. I need to remember that. Similarly, if I live righteously I'll be blessed. By remembering those two facts I can be more at peace that everything will go well despite the difficulty of the task and the fear of things like the economy. Finally, by being more positive and peaceful I will be more likely to be loving, patient and basically just more mentally present with my wife and children.

I continued to ponder all of that plan and suddenly I realized something...remember....peace/positiveness...love. That sounds awfully similar to faith, hope and charity. In other words, if I remember that I have been guided in my decisions and therefore things will work out for the best (FAITH), then I can have the peace (HOPE - hope that things will be ok) that comes from that knowledge. By being more at peace I am able to avoid the overriding influence of stress that lowers my patience with and ability to focus on those around me (CHARITY - or lack there of in this description). So, just as Moroni explained...if you have faith, you can have hope which allows you to have more charity. It was kind of cool to draw my own cause and effect relationship between those three attributes that parallels what Moroni and Paul said.

Late Edit - I forgot to add on what is now written in green.

Hate

2008-11-12T07:33:00.001-08:00

I'm short on time so this post has to be unfortunately truncated. I have purposely avoided posting about the prop-8 subject because there is so much negativity. Why do people on both sides have to be so negative? Those that are pro-8 are usually against it for christian rights, shouldn't they be more...uh...christian? Those against it are usually for equality and anti-hate crimes, etc.. Shouldn't they be...uh...less hateful.

Those who are for prop-8 are not overzealous religious bigots. Those who are opposed to prop-8 are not spawn of the devil.

To scroll through the hate, it starts around picture 30.

Obama and Secret Combinations...

2008-11-03T21:55:00.000-08:00

I know, just typing that makes me cringe. If you know me well, you know that I am a documentation nazi because I can't stand people being caught up in sensationalism and stating or passing on statements without a sound base. With that in mind, consider the following...

I almost always listen to audio books on my drive home at night. Tonight I couldn't remember which book was next in my series so I decided to listen to talk radio and see how the polls were doing the last day before elections. Unfortunately Monday is my late night and the only major talk radio on during my drive home is Michael Savage. I absolutely hate that guy's antics and think he is a little disturbed mentally, seriously. Anyway, I thought I would check out what he was saying for a minute and I popped in right as a very intelligent Latino was talking about Obama being part of a 30+ year old Italian communist agenda plan. Normally, this would be where I would sigh and turn the station, but this guy had a grounded and experienced sound to him that intrigued me. He was talking about being part of inner circles that have been working on slowly using democracy to end democracy. Despite how crazy it sounds, take a minute and listen to my two recommended segments, then you can listen to the rest if you want and let me know what you think.

You can download all three segments by going here - http://www.910knew.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=savage.xml

Download the first hour (Nov 3rd) as instructed and start listening at 20 minutes and 30 seconds. Like I said, ignore everything Savage says, he is mentally disturbed. At 26 minutes and 25 seconds the caller talks about his experience a little.

I only got to minute 9 on the second hour before having to go to bed, so I'll listen to the rest tomorrow.

Another thing that made me stop and consider this (because I also hate conspiracy theories) was a local talk radio guy interviewing a man that had word print proof that William Ayers had written part of Obama's book(s). The only reason why I listened to this was because I have read extensively on how word print analysis has been used on the Book of Mormon to evaluate its authorship. To see the analysis read here - http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/evidence_mounts.htm.

Thinking 30 Years Ahead?

2008-11-03T10:45:00.000-08:00

Most of the email forwards I receive I delete pretty quickly because they are over sensationalized, but this one emphasized the final intent of my previous post.

It was given in 1978 by Elder Neal A. Maxwell...

"Make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters, in the months and years ahead, events are likely to require each member to decide whether or not he will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions. President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had 'never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional or
political life.'

"This is hard doctrine, but it is particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ. . . . Your discipleship may see the time when such religious convictions are discounted. . . . This new irreligious imperialism seeks to disallow certain opinions simply because those opinions grow out of religious convictions.

"Resistance to abortion will be seen as primitive. Concern over the institution of the family will be viewed as untrendy and unenlightened.... Before the ultimate victory of the forces of righteousness, some skirmishes
will be lost. Even in these, however, let us leave a record so that the choices are clear, letting others do as they will in the face of prophetic counsel. There will also be times, happily, when a minor defeat seems probable, but others will step forward, having been rallied to rightness by what we do. We will know the joy, on occasion, of having awakened a slumbering majority of the decent people of all races and creeds which was, till then, unconscious of itself. Jesus said that when the fig trees put forth their leaves, 'summer is nigh.' Thus warned that summer is upon us, let us not then complain of the heat."

--- Elder Neal A. Maxwell

And, as a doctor myself, I couldn't help feeling some resonation with this article. Although I can't forsee any similar circumstances for my profession, if I had to consider changing 21 years of school because of a new ruling similar to prop-8 failure, it would be a very hard pill to swallow.

Politics

2008-10-23T21:10:00.000-07:00

I hate politics. I brings out the three negative attributes I hate most about human nature: unkindness, misrepresentation (positioning statements over facts) and the mob mentality. I can't stand getting emails about Obama being a dirty Muslim or the media trying to show Palin as having no experience. How much better would the world be if people would honestly admit their opponents strengths and not try to sensationalize or blow out of proportion their weaknesses? How much easier would our ability be to choose who is really better for the country if we didn't get distorted or unresearched or knowingly false facts?

Despite that, I like thinking over and figuring out philosophical dilemmas. I have been thinking a lot lately about two hot political topics here on the west coast: Proposition 8 in California (prohibiting same-sex marriages) and Initiative 1000 in Washington (allowing assisted suicide). Both are difficult because you can't EASILY make an argument against gay marriage or assisted suicide on the stance that it hurts your personal rights, especially with I-1000.

As usual I try to pull my religion into the decision process to help me see where I stand. The end all, be all for me is the Book of Mormon. I can think of one main passage that is related to this subject:

Alma 30:7, 9, 11

7 Now there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

9 Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.

11 For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man’s belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds.

The eleventh Article of Faith also is similar, but neither it nor the above scripture gives an obvious statement that helps with this situation. I do think that the spirit of these two snippets of church doctrine is that we shouldn't make a law that punishes someone for their belief if their action doesn't harm another person or group.

So does voting for I-1000 or against Prop-8 create a situation where someone can make a personal choice that will hurt another person or group? I don't think so with I-1000, but the sanctity of life argument is difficult as well. I don't think there is enough evidence right now to say one way or another on Prop-8. Although they haven't always been perfect, I think I'll side with my ecclesiastical leaders for now on this one. In gray areas I would rather error and find out I was following the Lord's mouthpieces than error and find out I went against them and they were right. Before you drag me through the coals, I do think there is a just middle ground on Prop-8.

Choosing your child's sex

2008-09-18T09:35:00.000-07:00

Is it wrong to do things that will increase the odds of your child's gender? Female sperm live longer than their Y counterparts. Purposely trying to have fertilization occur a few days before ovulation so that more X's are around than Y's for conception is a mild form of "gender control." What about centrifuging those X's and Y's when you have to use artificial insemination to greatly increase the odds of which chromosome type fertilizes the egg? Even further, what about selecting an X and doing in-vitro to have a 99.9% success rate with gender selection? Is there any difference between any of these examples and if so, where do you draw the line, if there is one?

My wife and I have thought about this frequently considering that we have three boys and really would like to have a girl. For us it is more of an adoption question. We really want to adopt and we really would like a girl. Is choosing to adopt to get a desired gender wrong, even if our intentions are good? What if you adopt 60% because you can select the gender and 40% for the right reasons. Knowing that we have these personal questions, a close friend recently asked us if we knew the Church's official position and what our personal opinion was on the matter.

I'm familiar with the church's position on most matters for two reasons. The first comes from reading the Church's General Handbook of Instructions a couple of times. During bishopric meetings every Sunday during dental school (I was ward clerk) we would go through a section of the handbook to make sure we were aware of the proper methods of carrying out church activities. Secondly, as part of our biology major in undergrad at BYU Marisa and I had a class called bio-ethics. We went over the major ethical issues involved with biology from genetically modified food to euthanasia (yes, the children in Asia are doing fine!). Because it was a class at BYU we also were fortunate to receive the Church's official position where it had one. I loved this class because we had group sessions where we would decide what was the most ethical thing to do, both for the general public and ourselves as Mormons. There were very interesting times when these two didn't coincide.

I don't remember anything specific from that class on artificial insemination. So I did a Google search. Although you can't blatantly copy (hard or electronic) the handbook, it is ok to have sections copied and given to people for clarification. In that spirit I avoided looking for the handbook online, but don't mind copying a section found on a webpage that shows our policy towards a couple difficult issues such as this:

Artificial insemination is defined as placing semen into the uterus or oviduct by artificial rather than natural means. The Church does not approve of artificial insemination of single women. It also discourages artificial insemination of married women using semen from anyone but the husband. "However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the husband and wife, with the responsibility for the decision resting solely upon them" (_General Handbook of Instructions,_ 11-4). Children conceived by artificial insemination have the same family ties as children who are conceived naturally. The _General Handbook of Instructions_ (1989) states: "A child conceived by artificial insemination and born after the parents are sealed in the temple is born in the covenant. A child conceived by artificial insemination before the parents are sealed may be sealed to them after they are sealed."

That all seems pretty benign and doesn't tackle this issue of gender selection. I couldn't find anything specific to this issue from the church so if you do, please make a comment. My personal opinion on many things that happen in this life is that we get to choose and then we suffer/enjoy the consequences. This life isn't totally mapped out. I don't think that all people were preordained to be in the exact family that they ended up in. If a 16 year old girl chooses to give in to her boyfriend's wishes and gets pregnant then that spirit will end up with her as the mother. If she chooses to wait until later in her life when she is married to a different man than her previous boyfriend then that spirit will probably have headed to another family. The family the spirit goes to isn't 100% random either. Kind of like a happy medium between the two possible ends of the spectrum. If this is the case, then choosing your child's gender (and how many children you have for that matter) doesn't break down the perfect cosmic tapestry pre-woven in the life before this.

The similar subject of how many children to have can potentially help give perspective on this issue. There are probably many times when a family wasn't "supposed to" have another child, ie-some spirit waiting up in heaven for just this family. They end up getting pregnant. This then gives them the consequence and the joy of getting another spirit in their family. Choosing to (intentionally or not) have another child is totally up to them. So, I guess you can tell which way I lean on the main subject at hand, but I have to admit...I'm not totally comfortable one way or the other. If it came down to actually having the opportunity/necessity to make this decision I would have to go with the standard practice and one recommended in the handbook, together with your spouse take the question up with the Lord. When you get an answer from him you know you are in the right. The tough thing there is what to do when you don't get the 100% obvious answer...

On to politics

2008-09-09T20:53:00.000-07:00

Its hard not to blog about politics during this seemingly all encompassing presidential race. I don't enjoy talking about politics the same way I do about religion. They both are touchy subjects, they get people very emotional, very quickly and can create lifelong lasting emotional scars between close people. Furthermore, when it comes to politics I don't feel the same internal impetus that I do with religion. On that note I couldn't resist posting the following...

Marlin K Jensen has been a hero of mine since high school when I heard him give a conference talk on the true nature of humility. I heard him speak again in the MTC and his words resonated with me. I'm sure you know that he has been in the Presidency of the Seventy and is an outspoken Democrat. When talking about the all too common, but incorrect Mormon notion that if you're not a Republican your less righteous than you otherwise could be, Brother Jensen said:

"[This] notion that may prevail in some areas that you can’t be a good Mormon and a good Democrat at the same time. There have been some awfully good men and women who have, I think, been both and are both today. So I think it would be a very healthy thing for the church—particularly the Utah church—if that notion could be obliterated."1

The Church itself has stated in an official statement that, "Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in the platforms of all major political parties."2

I strongly feel an opposition to both parties, and like many things in both parties. If Obama wins I'll be glad to put part of the racism issue behind us. If McCain wins I'll be happy to see a strong woman become VP. Either way there will be good things that will happen to our country that won't if the other party were to win. Here's to hoping that the party who wins will be the one that makes the most good things happen!